Announcer: Welcome to Leadership Development News, profiles and practices of top performers. Leaders are the heartbeat of any organization. Let Cathy Greenberg and Relly Nadler share with you the pathway to becoming a top leader in your organization. Now here are your hosts, Dr. Greenberg and Dr. Nadler.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Welcome to Leadership Development News, Profiles and Practices of Top Performers. I'm Dr. Relly Nadler, Dr. Cathy Greenberg and I have now are entering into our, at the end of our twentieth season.
Dr. Relly Nadler: In January, we'll start our twenty first season. So we've been doing this for quite a while, and we always want to bring you the best and people who can give you some tips, tools to be your best. Today, we have Keith Wyche. I'll make sure I say that right.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yep. All right. You see him on the screen if you're seeing this a lot live or on YouTube. And we're going to talk about his new book that just came out in June, A Blueprint for Restoring Integrity, trust, and people centered leadership.
Dr. Relly Nadler: This resonates so well with what Cathy and I talk about. We're fans of emotional intelligence, have been working to bring tips and tools to help raise emotional intelligence. And we know that's so important. You know, the leader is, I like to say, is the emotional thermostat for the team.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So, how the leader is, and especially when things go wrong, everybody looks at the leader. How is the leader handling this? If you are calm, cool, collected, reflective, your team is going to go, Okay, it's under control. And if you're stressed, if you're irritated, you're frustrated, you're at the end of your rope, emotions are contagious.
Dr. Relly Nadler: People pick that up. And all of a sudden, that sense in the organization travels and people pick it up. So, let me tell you a little bit about Keith here. He is a seasoned executive.
Dr. Relly Nadler: He's a board director. He's an author. We'll be talking about his book. He's a sought after corporate leadership keynote speaker whose career spans some of the most respected companies in corporate America.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Formerly an executive at IBM and AT&T, later served as president of U.S. operations for a division of Pitney Bowes. He was subsequently recruited by Supervalu to lead two iconic retail banners. First as president of Cub Foods and later as president of Acme Markets.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And in 2015 was hired by Walmart where he played a key leadership role in the company's e-commerce transformation during pivotal period of growth and disruption retiring in 2024. So, he's shaped for decades the experience of navigating complex organization. We're going to hear about that today. He's been featured on NBC, Today Show, Fox Business News, USA Today, other national media outlets.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And he's an accomplished author and a featured speaker for Fortune 500 companies, professional associations, faith based institutions, where he challenges leaders to elevate standards of integrity, truth, and trust. So, Keith, welcome.
Keith Wyche: Really welcome. Glad to be a part of it.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. So, we always kind of start off trying to get a little history about you, and that always goes way back. So, who've been some of the key people who have informed you, maybe have influenced you, you know, to who you are today?
Keith Wyche: Yeah, I would have to kind of, you know, say I have three uncles, well, two uncles and my father who were probably the biggest influence. My father in that, you know, he instilled a work ethic in me. I saw him go to, night school for ten years to get a four year degree, and and that gave me a lot of, you know, just insight into resilience. I had another, uncle who lived with us while he was going to, undergrad.
Keith Wyche: So again, that gave me a hunger and a desire, for further education. And then finally, had an uncle who was a banker, one of the first bankers in Cleveland, who was an African American banker. And so he he kinda gave me the business savvy I have. So those three were kinda my my guiding light.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Okay. Cool. And then, you know, what was your first job and and how did that maybe, I know I kind of threw you on that one, that kind of maybe, influenced you. What were some of your first jobs that you had?
Keith Wyche: Yeah, my, my first two jobs, the first one, I had a paper route. There was a newspaper in Cleveland called the Cleveland Press. And, you know, believe it or not, know, 19 years old with that job, I learned about customer service, customer satisfaction, the importance of collection And dealing with competition because we actually had another paper, Cleveland Plain Dealer, which was a morning paper.
Keith Wyche: And so, you know, at the ages like me, again, nine and 10, you're getting these things. And then from there, at 14, I went to work for McDonald's. Uh-huh. Okay.
Keith Wyche: And, again, just two great opportunities to learn about people, and the importance of people.
Dr. Relly Nadler: You know, those early jobs really do help, especially if you're in the public and you and you learn how to how to serve others. So I can see you're, you know, passionate about this subject. And why now in writing the book? What was maybe the tipping point?
Dr. Relly Nadler: So you now have retired, but you're on the speaking circuit and writing and everything else. So yeah, what was some of the impetus to write the book now?
Keith Wyche: Yeah. A couple summers ago, my, teenage grandson was visiting, and we were watching the news. And really, it was one of those news nights where it was just all bad news. There were executives misbehaving.
Keith Wyche: There was a religious leader who had fallen from grace. There was a politician, who had just got convicted. And he looked at me at about 15 years old and said, pops, you're a leader. Right?
Keith Wyche: And I said, yeah. He says, do you lead that way? And it really got me to thinking that, you know, we are really not giving our... The next generation, the best example of what leadership looks like.
Keith Wyche: I think about when I was a child, leadership meant something. You know? If you were a pastor, you know, it carried a respect. If you were an elected official, and so, you know, that's the start of it.
Keith Wyche: I wanted to make sure, really, it wasn't my imagination. So, you know, there was research that was done by the Edelman Trust Group that said that, you know, seven out of 10 people don't trust their government leaders or business leaders to tell them the truth. Right. From a Gallup survey, even clergy.
Keith Wyche: In 1985, you know, people said trust and clergy was 67%. It's down at 32% now. And so just all across the board, we're having this struggle in leadership, and I just think that we need to speak to it to correct it.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's so good. I love that you're bringing in some of the stats. You know, one of the newest things that just came out in Gallup. This is the first time in, like, fifteen years that under 30% of people are engaged at work.
Dr. Relly Nadler: It's usually been 30 to 33%. Now it's 29%. And the reason why this year book is going to be so timely, and I like that you're using Gallup because we use Gallup a lot, the manager has the key influence. And they say the manager, and they could be manager leader, has about 70% influence over the whole team.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And that's what I was saying far as emotions are contagious, and so the key influence is going to be the manager. And do they have their act together? Are they balanced? So, that's why I'm excited to hear about this.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So, this idea of uncommon leadership, I know I've written a bunch of books and you play with the title. And so you got a good title there, Uncommon Leadership. Let me read it again, A Blueprint for Restoring Integrity, Trust, people centered leadership. So tell me about, you know, that sense, you know, about the kind of the decency and common sense that you're trying to deal with.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. I I think if you go back, you know, I started in corporate America, you know, early nineteen eighties. There was this move toward what I call servant leadership. Right.
Keith Wyche: We were really focused on, you know, being, you know, folks who led folks from a servant perspective, had a servant's heart. And it seems like we've morphed into something similar to self serving leadership, where it's more about me. It's more about I. And there's lots of reasons for that.
Keith Wyche: You know, when you think about the pay differential, you know, when I started working, you know, again, it was about 28... 281 to 1, CEO to the worker. Now that number... I'm sorry, it's 21 to 1.
Keith Wyche: Now it's 281 to 1. Right? And so there are people who are coveting that job, not just for the role, but for for the money. And so, that's an issue.
Keith Wyche: You you have corporations who have to report quarterly earnings, and sometimes they can get very, you know, short term focus, on what they need to do to drive the stock price or or to drive the PE ratios. And so, you know, we've had to step back and realize at the end of the day, we're all in the people business. And there's a way, and I believe uncommon leaders are able to transform performance and people at the same time.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah, it is interesting how things have switched over the last ten, fifteen years. That sense of civility, the uncommon, which is uncommon now, is around the integrity and trust. And I've seen it over and over. I'm on the faculty of a coaching school, and we get people from all over who want to get trained as coaches, lot of organizations, talent development, organizational development, leadership development.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And there's a call out culture and this idea that maybe that's how I'm going to get attention. As I'm going to call someone out, doesn't mean I have to practice it. And we know it goes way back when about it's the critic who gets their attention, even though they may not have the answer. So as you walk through some of these high profile leadership scandals and argue that performance doesn't shield leaders from accountability.
Dr. Relly Nadler: How would you respond to leaders who say, but look at the results? And I know from a coaching standpoint, both Cathy and I are executive coaches, and we get people who need coaching, and it's probably on the soft side. And we know the soft side is the hard side, but they have great results. And often, they come begrudgingly to coaching.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And you got somebody else who says they need that. And even that, they go, they got such great results. So how would you deal with that in an organization? And I'm sure you've had people yourself and you've had that conversation with HR and other people.
Dr. Relly Nadler: They're a great performer, but they're leaving scorched earth behind them in these relationships.
Keith Wyche: That's a great point. And like you, I'm an executive coach with a company called EXCO. The the the simple answer is results without a focus on people, is not sustainable. And I'll use me as exhibit a.
Keith Wyche: I write about in the book when I was at IBM. I was a leader, and from a result standpoint, always made my numbers. However, never got promoted. Got paid a lot, but didn't get promoted.
Keith Wyche: And so I left, but out the door, one of the leaders there, who actually was on my team, said, Keith, you didn't get promoted because not the results you got. It was the how you got them. Right? You broke a lot of glass.
Keith Wyche: You rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. You weren't a team player. And so if you are a leader that gets results but you don't get them the right way, it's just not sustainable. People won't stay in the organization.
Keith Wyche: You will stifle innovation, and you'll really create a us versus them mentality. And so while it may work in the short term, it will always come back to bite you because it's just not sustainable. This business is run through people, and the minute you lose sight of that, and you put results as the end all be all, you're in trouble.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So let's say, and it's good to hear that you're doing some coaching too. What is some of the leverage of getting that person's attention? So you got someone in front of you, and they're results driven, they're kind of like you have been in the past, they don't really want to see you. Somebody else wants them to see you.
Dr. Relly Nadler: What are some of the tools or leverage that you have? It really goes back to these blind spots. We all have blind spots, but if your blind spots are alienating others, and we go back to engagement, how do you get them to see their blind spots?
Keith Wyche: Yeah. There's a client I'm working with right now who, to your point, was forced into this assignment. And, you know, one, I was a third party. But secondly, we did three sixty evaluations, and we got insights from his peers, from the folks we report to him, to his vendors.
Keith Wyche: And it was an moment to show him that, you know, here's how the people perceive you or, you know, say you show up. And I appealed to his desire to be a great leader. This is a person who really wants to be a better leader. And so he swallowed hard, and then, hey, let...
Keith Wyche: Let's look at how we can rebuild that trust. And what we found was, you know, he he was a my way or the highway guy because he felt his way worked. And I said, well, when you do that, what do you think happens to the creativity of the folks who report to you? He goes, it probably goes out the window.
Keith Wyche: I said, yeah, it does. Be... Because you're not giving them an environment to to do that. I said, what about feedback?
Keith Wyche: I said, do you allow your folks to, you know, kinda give you feedback? And he said, well, I had an incident where someone disagreed with me publicly, and I told her to come to my office. And I said, well, what do you think that effort just did for your entire... What what did you just tell the rest of your team by doing that?
Keith Wyche: He says, not to challenge me or not to, you know, question. I said, exactly. I said, that's not what you want. You know?
Keith Wyche: And so it was really helping him connect the dots between, you know, yeah, results are one thing, but from a legacy perspective, from a leadership perspective, this is not how I wanna show up, and this is how I don't wanna be remembered.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's great. And I think it's tough to get their attention. So the three sixty degree feedback is always helpful. It has to be obviously done well, because they always wonder, I wonder who said that.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And we know it's anonymous, so you don't know who said it. And one of the questions I would have for folks, because sometimes they can get blasted in that three sixty, it can be right between the eyes. And so which parts of that are valid? You don't have to buy the whole thing, But, you know, is there any part of that's valid?
Dr. Relly Nadler: No no one's gonna say none of it's valid. So if if they can own some of that, that's really helpful.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. And even in my leadership journey, Relly, you know, when I've had one on one feedback, you know, there's feedback that we get that's positive that we agree with. There's feedback that says that we need to work on this, and you agree with that. What do you do with that negative feedback or that feedback that you don't understand?
Keith Wyche: I always ask two questions. Give me an example of what it looks like when I behave that way, or tell me about a time I showed up in that way. And typically, when you get that feedback and they can call it out to you, then you can see it and you can address it.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. Yeah. That kind of makes sense. I think the other side of this, and I think for many leaders, when we come in with around leadership and the idea of emotional intelligence, this doesn't have to be hard or long.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I mean, it's in the relationships like you're saying. So, you show your leadership, you show that service orientation, you can show it in two, three, four minutes. It's these conversations that you have that are really important. I like one of the things that you said, you write that integrity is tested in private decisions, not public.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Can you share a moment of your own career where integrity was tested in a way that no one else would have known about it? So I was wondering
Keith Wyche: Yeah. You know, being in retail, and, you know, opening up multilevel units across the country, I was responsible for a lot of contracts for contractors to build stores and what have you. And there was one particular event I went to. It was a golf outing.
Keith Wyche: And, you know, I I played horrible golf as usual, but at the end of the day, there was a brand new set of golf clubs right by my car, just positioned there. And so I asked, I said, you know, what what are these? And all those are yours. And I said, what?
Keith Wyche: I, I didn't win, you know, longest drive or anything like that. Well, no, you know, we, we just wanna say thank you. Well, it was given to me by one of the contractors that was bidding on a job that I was doing. Now in reality, only he and I would've known that, for the most part.
Keith Wyche: But it was just one of those things that my integrity wasn't for sale for, you know, a a set of Ping golf clubs. Right? You know, I I it just, you know, it takes more than that. But but those are little things.
Keith Wyche: And and no leader wakes up in the morning, Relly, saying, you know what? I'm gonna be caught on a a jumbo kiss cam kissing my marketing. I mean, nobody wakes up thinking that. But you start these little bit of things, moving the line, moving the line, and before you know it, you've crossed the line.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. Well, when you start with that little... These little lies to yourself. You know, I had an early supervisor who had talked about, we know honesty and we know dishonesty.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So we know those, those are pretty clear. Where we get stuck is in the middle, and this was a made up word, unhonesty. And unhonesty is when you leave out something, or kind of a little bit of what we call the white lies. But what was really impressive about that, when someone is dishonest, we don't trust them.
Dr. Relly Nadler: When someone's honest, we trust them. But that un honesty, where a lot of this lies, we also don't trust that person. Even though they're saying, well, I'm not really lying, but it's that, maybe that internal lying to yourself.
Keith Wyche: That's important, and you see it all the time.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah, so that's kind of where it started. And I think also, like you said, kind of once you start, you have this confirmation bias. Well, wasn't that big a deal. I did it before. And you start taking the wrong turn, and it's easy to keep going that way.
Keith Wyche: Relly, you said something earlier that I want to touch back on, and it's about the leader being the thermostat and not the thermometer. Right? And one of the things I tell young leaders is everything about you sends a signal, whether you realize it or not. Yes.
Keith Wyche: And I use myself as an example of, you know, there was a time in my career, most of my career, I'm kind of an introvert, but I would close my office in the morning to kind of get that one hour to kind of get ahead of the day, what have you, thinking nothing of it. And my executive assistant said, Keith, you need to know that people are interpreting that as you being untouchable, that, you know, you're not approachable.
Keith Wyche: And I had to correct that, you know, because, again, it wasn't the signal I wanted to send. The other thing, really, is that when, you know, when you walk a store, say a Walmart store or a grocery store, you know, and you see trash on the floor or a spill, as a leader, I stop down myself, pick it up, clean it Because I say, if I don't, I've just told everybody who works for me, it's okay to walk past it.
Keith Wyche: And so leaders have to really think about everything they do sends a signal, whether they realize it or not.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I love that. That's so true. And so I would say the same thing to folks. They say, well, so you mean, like in every meet...
Dr. Relly Nadler: You know, in this meeting, I gotta kind of watch, you know, my rolling of the eyes and I got to, you know, we don't, I say, no, not in this meeting, every meeting, because that's it. And the way I would say that, Keith, you're under the spotlight all the time. Often, you're just trying to be yourself. And I think people just don't realize exactly like you're saying, how much influence they have.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So, it sounds like you had this moment as the president of Pitney Bowes or Bowes? Pitney Bowes, your team crushed their targets, but showed up at a kickoff meeting with zero energy. What did that teach you about what people actually need from their leaders?
Keith Wyche: Yeah. You know, that that was a big wake up call, because, again, I grew up with the idea of, you know, doing your job is just what you're supposed to do and, you know, exceeding your goals are what you're supposed to do. And what I realized is that, you know, money can be a motivator, but people wanna be recognized for their their work. They want to feel important.
Keith Wyche: They wanna feel validated. They wanna feel rewarded. And and in that moment, I failed. And I did take that feedback, went back, and, you know, I I used to have a saying, hey.
Keith Wyche: Let's turn the page. Next, you know, that year's gone. Let's go on to the next. Well, no.
Keith Wyche: Let's not turn the page real quick. Let's take some time to celebrate, you know, twelve months, four quarters of hard work, you know, where I thank you. And it's not even you, your family, you know, the time that you've taken away. And none of that cost me a dollar, really.
Keith Wyche: It was just taking the time to acknowledge, show appreciation. People want to be appreciated for what they do.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And it's those simple things. That's why I try to tell folks, this doesn't take much time. I mean, you really think about it, it's moments here and there. So one of the acronyms, Cathy and I love our acronyms, so we have an acronym called POWRR.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And the POW is point out what, but the two Rs are point out what is right and point out what should be repeated. So it looks like power. But I think with that, and if you can just take a moment to say, hey, thanks for doing that, because what was good about it? And so even using the word because, I mean, so I talk to leaders, if you say, Keith, thanks a lot.
Dr. Relly Nadler: It was great. You I love you. All right, the first time that feels good. Second time I say, Keith, thanks a lot.
Dr. Relly Nadler: You know I love you. It's like, I don't have the value. But if I could say, because, and I point out what was right, and I'd like to see repeated, now that success turns into a process. It doesn't take much time.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So often leaders are missing some of that. And like you said, people are hungry for that recognition.
Keith Wyche: But but that's a great feedback tip you just gave, Relly, because even when I get feedback, I I try and find something positive that they're doing to acknowledge. I find something, again, that, you know, hey, we we we need to, you know, work good more in this area, and how can I help you in that area? You know, when people wanna be... If if every time I showed up to a one on one with you, was all the things you didn't do or did wrong Right. That's not very encouraging or inspiring.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. Exactly. So when I... One of the things that I think you have in your book is about listening as a leadership advantage, not just being quiet when someone talks, but truly listening to understand, where most leaders go wrong...
Dr. Relly Nadler: You know, where do most leaders go wrong here? So what are they doing? And, like, what do we do to fix that?
Keith Wyche: I I think there's probably three big areas. And, I... I'm guilty of all three at some point in my career. The first is listening to respond.
Keith Wyche: You're not really listening to hear. You're listening till you can form your response. The second one I call is listening to defend. You've already made up in your mind that, you know, you don't agree with this person, and so you're you're you're calculating in the back of your mind what it is you need to say.
Keith Wyche: But the biggest mistake I think we make as leaders, believe it or not, is not asking the right questions. I have found asking the right questions will give you better answers. So for example, again, I love working in retail. I love going to stores.
Keith Wyche: And then whenever I would go to a store, Relly, I would find an hourly associate. And I would say, Hey, tell me three things I'm asking you to do that make no sense whatsoever. Or give me three things that, you know, products or whatever that if you had, you you could sell more, you could grow more. And every time I walked away with something that I hadn't heard from my team before, that hadn't funneled up, and that really made a difference.
Keith Wyche: And that was listening because I asked the right questions. Right? And I think that's where a lot of, you know, leaders, you know, need to get better at is is, again, obviously, you know, purposeful listening, but also asking, you know, really valid questions and sharp questions.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's so important because they they feel like... They feel valued. You know, one of... We talked about Gallup a little bit and and some of these engagement surveys they do.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I think every company does it. One of them that they have is my opinion seems to count. They have what they call the Q12. My opinion seems to count.
Dr. Relly Nadler: How hard is that? You said it to ask them. And so, what do you think about this? Or what's your recommendation?
Dr. Relly Nadler: Or what are the three things that you would change? And you can see people kind of pump up and go, Oh, you kind of want to know what I think? Yeah. And I think people miss the point, like you said, leaders so often because of time, and they want to get their idea.
Keith Wyche: And that drives engagement at the associate level too. The fact that I ask for your opinion and listen to you, now you're engaged.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah, exactly. So let's go... We're going to go to our short break here, and let me make sure I give you the information if you want to get in touch with Keith. I'll do that as soon as we come back.
Dr. Relly Nadler: But you're listening to Leadership Development News, and we'll be right back. Welcome back to Leadership Development News profiles and practice of top performers. We're talking with Keith Wyche. He has his new book that we're talking about, Uncommon Leadership, that just came out a couple months ago.
Dr. Relly Nadler: You want to be able to get a hold of that. If you want to see more about Keith, keithwyche.com. And he's also very active on LinkedIn, so you can kind of see that. So one of the questions that we have is about your grandsons in the Special Olympics.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Maybe say a little bit about kind of how that, I mean, for all of us, soften your heart a little bit.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. This is going back probably over ten years ago now, but, my my oldest grandson, Elijah, is autistic. He's on the spectrum. And at school, you know, was having a rough time kind of not fitting in, but he found Special Olympics, and was just very excited.
Keith Wyche: And I used to go to his meets and see the excitement. Well, as fate would have it, this was around 2013, 2014, they were looking for a new CEO, over the Special Olympics. And, you know, the Kennedy family is very active in that. And, the good news is I made it to the final round of interviews, didn't get the job.
Keith Wyche: The person who got it was a great fit. But what it did, really, it was the first time I really thought about tying my passion and purpose with my profession. -Um, and what I found is that it energized me in such a way that I no longer looked at my job as just a job or a career. Working at Walmart, I gravitated to their theme, helping people save money, live better.
Keith Wyche: And so that was my driving force. And so I think that if you can find some passion in your profession, something that resonates with you, be it food deserts and opening up grocery stores where people aren't getting access to fresh foods, whatever it is, I I think that you'll be that much stronger a leader because there's passion behind it, and your purpose can show up.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And so, what's he up to now? Your grandson?
Keith Wyche: He's actually a senior and he'll be, heading out to college pretty soon. So he, you know, taller than me, bigger than me and thinks he's smarter than me.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Taller, bigger, smarter. All right. Well, that's good. So you wanna keep that going for him.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's really good. One of the things is it sounds like in our conversation we had offline, it was just about transformation. And it seemed like in organizations, that's a huge word, I mean transformation, and your career has been defined by that. What's one of the most important things that a leader must do for people to trust when everything around them is changing?
Dr. Relly Nadler: And I've done a lot of change leadership. And the first thing is people don't want to change, and it's a threat to the brain. So, the neuroscience standpoint, as soon as there are change, they're going, more change, again change? And so how do you... How have you brought about some of those transformations?
Keith Wyche: Yeah. A couple of things. One, in times of uncertainty and transformation, I think leaders need to communicate, if not communicate, overcommunicate. Because in absence of a conversation People will dream up their own reality of what it is Right.
Keith Wyche: And it will always be worse than reality. That's the first thing. The second thing is, and I and I talk about in four r's, you know, you have to explain the relevance of the change, talk about the readiness of the organization, the robustness of it, and then, you know, the responsiveness. Let me give you an example, perfect example.
Keith Wyche: I started my career, professionally, believe it or not, with the number one retailer in the world in 1978. Who do you think that was in '78? The number one retailer in the world.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I don't know. I don't It's a big guess. Kmart? I think
Keith Wyche: Sears Sears Roebuck and Company. And and if you think about it at the time, Sears was almost like Walmart and Amazon together because they had their brick and mortar stores, but they had their catalog. -Yeah. -And so what I would do at Walmart to help the associates embrace e-commerce was, Hey, we don't wanna be the next Sears.
Keith Wyche: You know? And I took them through, hey, here's how the mighty can fall. You know, they didn't listen to this, they didn't listen to that. So we're making this change to e-commerce, not just to make your job difficult, because we want to survive.
Keith Wyche: And so taking the time to talk about the relevance of the chain, talking about the readiness. Hey, we're not ready today, but we're gonna get ready. Here are the things we need to do. Having that honest conversation about robustness.
Keith Wyche: Nobody likes chained, right? But helping them connect themselves to the vision. People worry about their jobs and this, that, and the other, and where they fit in. Too often, we don't take the time as leaders to show them what's in it for them.
Keith Wyche: And so, for example, I keep using grocery examples because they're just the best. Right. I would talk to my cashiers and say, You are so important because you are the last line of defense for us. If a customer comes in and has a horrible shopping experience, but they get to the front of the line, the line is short, it's fast, it's friendly, that colors the trip, they'll be back.
Keith Wyche: Conversely, if they find everything on their list, but the line is long, you're unfriendly, what that does is you're really sending them somewhere else. This is why your role is important. I would go to the cart pushers and say, You know what? When a customer pulls into the lot, two things turn them off, a lot of trash and carts everywhere.
Keith Wyche: And so you're the opening act for us. You show us... And so helping them see themselves in the vision was just so important, and leaders need to do a better job of explaining the why.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's great. I got a big smile on my face because I... Hopefully our our listeners could hear the passion that Keith just had, And it just exuded about that. And I can see the person in front of you.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And I think when you talk in metaphors also is great. So they're the opening act as retail and they're the closing act. And so just being able to know that, I mean, and that's a picture in their mind. And so as a good leader, you hear us talking in metaphors and talking in pictures. That's what you want.
Keith Wyche: Picture's worth a thousand words.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Exactly. Yeah. I'm the opening act. Okay.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's important. I'm the closing act. The curtain is going to go down and they're going to walk out to their car. I love that.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's really great. So the other part you said relevant, readiness, robustness, and then response. I guess the response is some of what we're just talking about there.
Keith Wyche: Yeah, it's what we're talking about. And it's also being willing to say, Hey, here's how it's going, or here's where we're exceeding, here's where we're not People need to know and understand. Yeah. And there are times, you know, you think about AI and all the turmoil that it can be causing.
Keith Wyche: Right now, the whole world, for the most part, is caught up in this AI and what does it really mean? And I think the smart leaders will say, Hey, I'm not 100% certain what it means, but what I do know is we've had technological advancements for years and years and years. Technology is a tool, and there's things it can do, and there's things it can't do. And we wanna equip you to be able to work with this tool, and, you know, be the best.
Keith Wyche: I mean, you have to give them that story because right now, half the world thinks they're gonna lose their job.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that the readiness and the robustness, you know, especially around AI, some of it is not only do you gotta use it, how are we gonna help you? How are we gonna support you?
Dr. Relly Nadler: Is there training out there? Which platforms do we want to use? What's most important? Versus kind of go fend for yourself.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And so all those are these small steps that they're going to feel like, Oh, we're in this together. Not only is this where we're going, you're going to travel with me, and at each stop, I'm going to get either resources or connection. And it goes back to what you're saying, Keith, expectations and communication. And if that's not there, people are gonna stop in their tracks.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And it's almost like, okay, I got enough other stuff doing, I'm not even gonna focus on this until they kind of pull me out of my tunnel vision and say, okay, here's why this is important over and over again.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. And there's companies like Walmart who... Who's offered eight hours of free AI training for every associate free of charge, again, just to get them comfortable with it. And understanding.
Keith Wyche: You know, there's tons of companies who, again, are are embracing it, as an opportunity to, you know, upscale their people.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So just because we're talking about, change a lot, you know, one of the things... John Kotter wrote a bunch of books about leading change. And one of the things I love when I talk about change, the leaders who are listening to us, you can talk about this is important, you can have an all hands meeting, you could say it in your meeting, at the end of a month, maybe they heard about it two or three times, which would be kind of common.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Going back to what you're saying, communication. And what he says, Kotter, and I pass this on all the time, can you talk about it minimum four or five times a day versus the email or the all hands. It's the work you're doing, and you're talking with people all day long. And if you have a change team, which I'm sure you've been on many change teams, let's say you have five people who are on the change team, and each person talks about why this change is so important every day.
Dr. Relly Nadler: The organization hears about that 20 times in a day. They hear about it 100 times at the end of the week. That's what doesn't happen if we're looking for transformation. So, just say a little bit more about the communication piece.
Keith Wyche: Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Where I've seen transformation and change go wrong is, again, there's a big announcement up front, there's an all hands meeting, there's the email, And then we don't follow-up or say anything more to maybe the next quarterly meeting or the next quarterly meeting. Again, in that absence, you've created a void. And what you need to do is exactly what you say.
Keith Wyche: I said overcommunicate. -You need every day talk about the change and talk about the why and the benefits. Again, reminding them of, here's how you're connected to that. You know, too often we leave that step out because if it's just, hey, the company's initiative or we're doing this, you know, Hey.
Keith Wyche: You know? Kids are like... You know? I don't know about you.
Keith Wyche: My my kids, you know, the millennials, they change job every three years. Right? So they're they're not looking for the gold watch at thirty years. Right?
Keith Wyche: They wanna know what's in it for me. But that constant messaging, constant messaging is really what drives it home, and it drives the culture. It So becomes second nature.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. They just hear about it so many times. I think as coaches and work with folks, every organization, every leader is metric driven. How do we take some of what could be the soft things and turn it into a metric?
Dr. Relly Nadler: I would say, Hey, we talked about change. We talked about last time you were going to talk about it four times a day. Did you do it? How many times did you talk about it?
Dr. Relly Nadler: And it again, that's the accountability piece of that over and over. And then the listening part, this comes from the book Supercommunicators. You know, we talk about this in the coaching school. When you're listening, are you giving them back what you just heard?
Dr. Relly Nadler: And in response, they say, That's right, exactly. If you're not getting a that's right, exactly, you haven't given them, you haven't listened.
Keith Wyche: Haven't listened at all. And you may as well be speaking English and they can be speaking French, right? You know, and it's that, and I practice that even in my home with my kids and family, you know, and I thought what I heard you say is x, y, and z. Yeah. Right? Because sometimes the message sent isn't the message received.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. And it it takes practice. And you just you just said it, Keith. I I tell people, practice that at home.
Dr. Relly Nadler: We've interviewed Martin Seligman, who's the father of positive psychology, interviewed a couple of years ago. He put together this whole program for people coming back from Iran and Afghanistan, and one was listening, And this idea of feeding back just like you said. And so, the story he told, he talks about a general who is celebrating his kid, you know, and said, Oh, that's interesting.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Tell me why they selected you, or Oh, that's great. What are you going to do about this? And his son looked at him and said, who are you? Because that was so different. And going back to what you said earlier, Keith, that's not hard. You just got to do it.
Keith Wyche: Exactly. It doesn't cost you anything.
Dr. Relly Nadler: It doesn't cost. Well, talk about costs. This is a good segue because we want to talk about burnout. Was there a cost that you felt where your health was deteriorating?
Dr. Relly Nadler: Here, it's talking about your marriage was struggling, and you were running it empty. So, say a little bit about that because I think us being males, you know, you just, grin and bear it, You know? Without pain, there's no gain. And so, like, what was your wake up call, and then what do you do now?
Keith Wyche: Yeah. It it was one of those things where, again, you know, I had the super leader syndrome, right, that, you know, I had to work twice as hard. You know, I had to be an example. I had, know, outwork everybody.
Keith Wyche: And results results results. And nothing is wrong with those things, you know, in and of themselves. But, you know... And I write about it in the book, you know, you have to serve from a full cup.
Keith Wyche: And too often, as leaders, we... Our job is to pour into everyone else to help lead up, and we rarely take the time to say, okay, let me let me figure out what's happening with me. For for me, it it turned into a mini stroke. I was in California at a conference, and thank God my daughter was there.
Keith Wyche: All of a sudden, everything went black, and, found out that, you know, I had suffered a mild stroke. Wow. And, you know, that was my wake up call. One, to make sure every year I was getting physicals.
Keith Wyche: I go to Mayo Clinic every year and get an executive physical. But to pay attention to, my health, even to take time for Keith. If it's no more than, you know, a fifteen minute walk around the building or outside for lunch, you know, I personally like to meditate or listen to music, but you have to find that time to recharge. You know, there was a time you're gonna laugh, Relly.
Keith Wyche: I I would brag about the fact that I never used all my vacation time or my pee... You know? Only once in my life have I taken a two week vacation, and that was, you know, four or five years ago. And so I had to realize, one, I was setting a bad example.
Keith Wyche: Because what I was telling my people was, unbeknownst to me, it's not a good thing to take vacation. Right? Now, I never said that, but because they saw what I... You know, they said, well, if Keith doesn't...
Keith Wyche: You know? And I literally had to say, hey, when you're on vacation, you know, don't take any calls. Enjoy your vacation. You know? And then I had to take my own medicine.
Dr. Relly Nadler: What a good story and what a good learning. I mean, yeah, that health and that wake up call really does it. So one of the questions that we usually ask more towards the end, so what do you do during a day to recharge? I mean, do you actually...
Dr. Relly Nadler: I know you said you take a walk. Do you actually meditate or or prayer? Or what do you do?
Keith Wyche: I I I actually have meditation. There's an app on my phone. I'll click it on for, you know, fifteen, twenty minutes. And it's, you know, calming music or, you know, a nice, you know, voice.
Keith Wyche: You know, maybe you've had, you know, these soft spoken speakers who, you know, speak life into you. Those are things I do on a daily basis, to, to, to do that. And actually on my phone, if you would see my, my, my app, I get an alert every four hours to, to do that, to, you know, to take at least a minute to kind of just decompress wherever I'm at.
Dr. Relly Nadler: That's beautiful. Well, I'm a, a lifelong, meditator and it just really works. So I do it just because we're all this corporate athlete like you were, we all are. And what do we know about athletes?
Dr. Relly Nadler: What are they doing most of the time? and they're getting They're not performing. What do you do with people you coach, I coach? Perform, perform, perform, perform, maybe a little bit of practice, even if that or getting ready, which is, I think the meditation is really helpful.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. You know, there's, I'm a big LeBron James fan. He's from the Cleveland area. Right.
Keith Wyche: And people are amazed that at 42 years old, I guess, you know, he's... But if you look at his re... His routine, his regimen of, you know, self care and, you know, he he spends a lot of time and money to to make that that machine work.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Supposedly, you know, I'm a fan of him too. And just basketball in general, he spends a million dollars a year on himself. He is one of the face of the of the Calm app. Is that the one you use?
Dr. Relly Nadler: LeBron uses it like I'm using LeBron's app. He's doing it, which is great. That's what we want to see. That's good.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Let me see if there's anything else. So during lunch, and I also talk to folks like, so what do you do during lunch? And it sounds like you take a walk, but how many people you coach either don't take a lunch or they bring something and they're eating in front of their computer?
Keith Wyche: Well, you know, again, I have to tell them myself, you know, again, IBM days, I was young, you know, early thirties, you know, and thinking I was a first time leader, right? And it was a big project I'll never forget. And, it was lunchtime, and one of my staff said, Hey, can we break for lunch? And I remember saying, Lunch is for the week.
Keith Wyche: But fortunately, I had a boss who came by and said, No, lunch is for the hungry. Let let these people have some lunch. And so, again, it it was all that mentality of, you know, I gotta prove, you know, work hard, you know? And I had to learn there's a difference between working hard and working smart.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah, that's great. Well, I also think from what you said, I think one, us as males, this whole thing of stay with it, work harder without paying your total gain, but also obviously a person of color, I think you get that message even more so. So when when you deal with people, you know, you know, with... Of color or minorities, how do you deal with them?
Dr. Relly Nadler: I mean, because it's almost like, let's get that message out even stronger because I think it's a cultural thing.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. I I talk about, you know, that there's three things you get... Need to manage. 50% of it is your performance.
Keith Wyche: You've got to be a top performer, because, again, one, you know, you may be in situations where you're undervalued or underestimated, so you wanna make sure your performance is already top tier. But you also want to manage two other things, your exposure and your perception. Your exposure is everything from who knows you and who knows the value that you bring in the organization, and then what do you know about the leadership requirements of the organization?
Keith Wyche: What do you know about, again, growing? I think as a leader, you have to stay current to remain relevant, particularly as a person of color. And so I stress that. And then brand is really important.
Keith Wyche: What is your personal brand? Relly, I argue we all have one whether we realize it or not. People know what to expect or not to expect. And so I do a little quick game with them.
Keith Wyche: I said, What car is known for safety? And they'll say Volvo. I said, what's the ultimate driving machine? And they'll say BMW.
Keith Wyche: I say, now if I say Yugo, what comes to mind? And those who are old enough to remember the car from Yugoslavia at 60, the joke was sometimes you go, sometimes you don't. I said, in your organization, to your boss Yeah. Are you the Yugo?
Keith Wyche: Are you the BMW? Are you the Volvo? What are And once they once they package that, you know, around them, you know, and really, you know, resonates with them, they look at themselves more holistically and get the job done.
Dr. Relly Nadler: So along with that, because we've all got this message. I know when I coach people of color, it's just ingrained. I'll do everybody. Mean, of course, we already have that as a male.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Then I think as a person of color, that sense of proving yourself. Where does vulnerability come in? Because I think that's the opposite side. And so I know with my kids and things, I did it more for them.
Dr. Relly Nadler: If I messed up on something, I would exaggerate it. Oh, I really blew this. I got this completely wrong. I don't know what I was thinking.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And here's what I need to do to kind of fix it. But how do I, anything around that message of vulnerability, because it does kind of break that whole paradigm of the strong male.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. And it's this dichotomy here because you want to be able to have a safe space to say that, but you also don't want that being said to confirm in some other's mind, you know, something they already preconceived. Right? Yeah.
Keith Wyche: And so even in being vulnerable, you know, and you touched on it, you know, if ever I brought a problem or, you know, I had a boss who told me, says, Keith, the wheel can come off the bus. Tell me, but you also better tell me Yeah. What you're gonna do to fix them to make sure it never happens again. And so it's, you know, bringing that problem but bringing solutions.
Keith Wyche: Right? Saying, hey, here's where, you know, we dropped the ball, but we're gonna fail forward, fail fast. Here's what I've learned, and here's how we're go forward. And that sends a different message.
Dr. Relly Nadler: It does. So it's kind of the bothand. And I think when you're saying going forward, and this is not gonna be easy, this is gonna be a challenge, and we can do this. I mean, so it's kind of putting it out there so when they feel the challenge and they feel like, I don't know about that, hopefully it resonates in their head what you've said to them, going back to what you said, the leader is the emotional thermostat.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. The other thing I will tell you, and I share with them all the time, you know, that there are people who've been mentors to me, who did not look like me at all. In fact, I would argue most of my mentors didn't look like me. And so leave yourself open and leave yourself room to receive from others.
Keith Wyche: There are people out here who will really get, you know, and help you, you know, get to that next level.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. So to have some mentors. So the other thing I like about what you said, because we talk about, you know, I usually would talk about work life balance. You have a term you called manage imbalance. So say a little bit about that. That's a good one.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. You know, we, we, we tend to hear work life balance, and we assume it's fiftyfifty. And the reality of it is, and really I had to grow to this, is that I had to understand there are sometimes the job is gonna get 80% because it's a big project, and maybe it's an M and A deal, whatever. And, you know, family or your personal self gets 20.
Keith Wyche: Conversely, there will be times when, you know, that family, you know, needs needs your attention, you know, that daughter, that wife, that's... And you have to prioritize. Now, again, there's certain balls as a leader you can't drop, and that's why you have to prioritize. But but you will find that rarely will it be fifty fifty, that there will always be some level.
Keith Wyche: And again, another thing I was guilty of, and I didn't realize it till I retired, I took my kids, each individually on a vacation, just me and them. And they all had a story really of something I missed in their career, in their life that was important. Be it father daughter dance, walking my son out on the field for senior night on this basketball team. And I said, but I was working to give you guys the stuff for the new...
Keith Wyche: You know? And they said, dad, we appreciated the stuff. We'd appreciate it more if we had more of you.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. It's great That's what? That stung.
Keith Wyche: That stung a little bit.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. Yeah. But that's really good, Keith, that they could say that and how you receive it. I recently did a group with a bunch of men, and we kind of started off, and I said, so what did learn about your feelings and emotions from your dad?
Dr. Relly Nadler: And everybody had a story, I mean, I'm old enough that they were all gruesome stories, they never really heard anything good. And then I have this model with emotions that you have to name it, it's called name, N A M E. You have to accept what it is, good or bad. You have to manage it, you're managing thoughts, you're managing actions, but then you have to express it.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And so part of the express story I would tell, just like your kid said to you, three sentences I said to my dad, I said, you know, you're my best, you're my greatest fan now, you're in my court, I love that so much. And when I really needed the most, you weren't around, you weren't there. And he kind of swallowed hard like you did, and said, Okay. But for me, and I'm sure for your kids, that was enough.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I didn't want to bad mouth them, but those three sentences, but you heard it. Versus going back to you're listening to defend.
Keith Wyche: Yeah. And and and let's be honest. I I spent about two seconds defending it, saying, hey. Well, I was doing...
Keith Wyche: You know? And, you know, they said, damn, we we appreciate the stuff. We wish we had more of you. Yeah. And so that's made me a greatest grandfather ever because my grandkids get all of me.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Oh, that's great. That's a sweet story. Alright. So as we're kind of coming to the end, you kind of have a chapter in your book, and I hope people, you know, will go get that.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I'm sure it's at all the sources, Uncommon Leadership Blueprint First, during integrity, trust, people centered leadership. Those words need to be there, because they're just not there so much anymore. Integrity, trust, people centered. It's the opposite. One chapter is titled Planting Trees You'll Never Sit Under. What does that mean to you?
Keith Wyche: It means a couple of things. It starts with understanding that we are just stewards, that this title isn't mine, this job isn't mine, these people aren't mine. I'm just the steward right now who's shepherding it. And my goal should be to leave this organization and its people better than I found it.
Keith Wyche: And to me, that speaks to legacy. That that speaks of creating future leaders. I think one of the number one jobs of a leader is to create future leaders. Right?
Keith Wyche: Particularly, you know, from a legacy perspective because, you know, to to me, if if you leave an organization and it falls apart, you weren't a very good leader. You should be, you know, seeding the ground for that next generation of leadership, whether they acknowledge it or not, or whether you get to visualize or see it or not. And I think that that's important. And the other thing I think, we talked about trust.
Keith Wyche: I have a formula for trust that says trust equals character times competency times consistency. And as a leader, if you wanna be remembered as someone who was trustworthy as a leader, you would have had to demonstrate all three of those on a consistent bay... And you need all three. You can't have two of the three.
Keith Wyche: Right? And so the greatest leaders to me, you know, they wanna design a legacy that outlives their tenure. Late in my career, I decided those three things I wanted to be remembered for, and, you know, and I made that my mission.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Sorry. Just to repeat that because, you know, there's a lot of different definitions of trust. So you said character, competency, consistency. Is that right?
Keith Wyche: Exactly. Yeah. And you need all three.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Dr. And I think, you know, so when I talk to folks, because I have a similar, I talk about competency, predictability, dependability, and where people fall down. And I think it's the consistency in the terms I would say is predictability. If you're not predictable, there's a part of your brain, the people around you are gonna, am I gonna get what I want from Keith?
Dr. Relly Nadler: Should I call him back up? Should I send him an email? I'm not sure. Your brain needs to go to other things. Exactly.
Keith Wyche: That's the last thing your brain should be worried about.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Right. All right. Well, good. So let's just finish with our, what we call is our lightning round, and maybe these are kind of some of, you know, kind of key actions. So, you know, leadership is... If you had us just complete that.
Keith Wyche: Leadership is... That's a great question. Leveraging people, process, and technology for a common goal or result.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Okay. Beautiful. And then at work, it's all about?
Keith Wyche: It's all about the results, but it's not just the result. It's the what, the why, and the how.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Okay. That goes back to what you're saying, the communication and over communicate. And then we already said some of this, but during the work day, not at home, but during the work day, what's the best way for you to recharge?
Keith Wyche: For me personally, it's meditation.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Okay. And I'm certainly an advocate, so, you know, this is more early in the morning for me, and I'm sure when we finish, that'll be one of the things. The good thing about meditation, it doesn't take long. I mean, you're saying fifteen minutes.
Dr. Relly Nadler: I would say even if you have five minutes, some of the research now is saying you can see a difference in five minutes. The metaphor I would use, if you don't have an electric car and you're putting gas in your car, you don't have much time, you put in $20. It gets you to the next destination. Five minutes of meditation can get you, you could be your best until the next break.
Keith Wyche: A absolutely, absolutely. And again, at this season, you know, I say health is wealth. So, you know, I wanna be healthy emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and otherwise. So
Dr. Relly Nadler: Alright. Well, let me give you your... The website again. keithwyche.com.
Dr. Relly Nadler: And that's Keith and then W Y C H E. And go ahead and get his book. And you've been listening to Leadership Development News, Profiles and Practices of Top Performers. So thank you so much, Keith.
Keith Wyche: Thank you for having me. Enjoyed it.
Dr. Relly Nadler: Yeah. So tune in and tune in to tune up your performance, and Cathy Greenberg will be us... With us for our next one. Alright. Thanks.
Announcer: You've been listening to Leadership Development News, profiles, practices of top performers with your hosts, Cathy Greenberg and Relly Nadler. We sincerely hope that you gained some great ideas and inspiration on how to elevate your leadership skills. Join us again next Monday at noon eastern time and 9AM Pacific time right here on the VoiceAmerica Business Channel.
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